Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

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RKanarek
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Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by RKanarek » Sun May 16, 2021 1:58 am

Greetings,

The table shown was automagically created by using the Table » New Table command (via the old skool menu system). You will observe that the table stretches beyond the left and right margins. I find this not merely irksome, but wrong.

The problem, if it be a problem, seems to result from the (IMHO) odd way TM 2021 is handling cell sizes. It starts with the cell width, then it expands the cell borders to allow space for the Table » Cell Properties » Format » Margins. Surely the cell width should be sacrosanct and TM should instead be reducing the usable space inside of the cell by the margins?

N.B. As I recall, a similar issue occurs when placing borders (“lines”) around objects. The enclosed object is not reduced to make allowances for the border (line) widths, but rather the lines extend past the object (and possibly the margins, etc.).

The table problem I reported above is only one of two problems introduced by the new (or at least newer) version(s) of TM. The second problem is TM’s intermittent refusal to change cell widths. The table dialog will accept changes to the Table » Cell Properties… » Format » Width, but the changes will not be applied when the dialog is closed. Because of its intermittent nature, I have not been able to document it [i]in flagrante delicto[/i], but I’m gunning for it.

Kind regards,
Richard Kanarek

“Attempting to make SMO perfect because I’ve tried the alternative!”
Attachments
New Tables Exceed Page Margins.png

SuperTech
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Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by SuperTech » Sun May 23, 2021 7:11 pm

Thanks for sharing the details, but I am unable to reproduce this problem. Please share the associated file of TextMaker 2021 in which you are getting this problem so that we can do further investigation for resolution.

If you want to send it to us privately, please e-mail us at the forum[at]softmaker.de

Please also include the forum URL of this topic so that we can trace your e-mail.
viewtopic.php?f=382&t=21124

RKanarek
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:59 am

Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by RKanarek » Mon May 24, 2021 4:17 am

Dear Super,

(By this point I feel at liberty to call you by your first "name." Hope you don't mind. ;-)

As per your request, please consult the attached zip archive.

Kind regards,
Richard Kanarek
Attachments
New Tables Exceed Page Margins.zip
(136.24 KiB) Downloaded 14 times

SuperTech
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Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by SuperTech » Wed May 26, 2021 5:14 pm

Thanks for sharing the problematic file and screenshots with complete details of the problem. I checked and found that this file is tmd which is our older version of documents. This one contains compatibility settings due to which table is following the different margin scheme.

Please follow these steps to resolve this problem:
1. Open this file in TextMaker.
2. Click on menu File > Properties... > View Tab > Compatibility... button.
3. Scroll down, and you will find 5th setting from the end is "Use table inner margins for the table position" checked.
4. Uncheck/disable it.
5. Click OK on both the dialog box and then try to insert a new table.

Please check the below screenshot for your reference.
Table inner margin.JPG

RKanarek
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:59 am

Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by RKanarek » Thu May 27, 2021 3:39 am

Dear Super,

Thanks for the information and the prompt reply.

Your directions work fine on a per file basis. I cannot, however, find a way to make the table compatibility setting the default. The setting doesn't seem to be saved in templates, and TM seems to forget about the changes I make. Again, the change seems persistent when applied to a particular file, but not anywhere else.

For example:
Table Compatibility Setting Forgotten - Animated.gif
Bonus unsolicited suggestion: it would be swell if the settings were documented somewhere. I could not find them in the .CHM help.


Cordially,
Richard
Attachments
Normal (Default Template) - Table Compatibility Setting Forgotten.tmvx
(17.42 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

SuperTech
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Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by SuperTech » Thu May 27, 2021 2:06 pm

Thanks for trying the steps and for sharing this new template file. I want to mention few important points here to clear some confusions:

1. I have tried you this template and found that this template as well as files created from it have the mentioned setting. So, you can make this template as default template and after that all documents will follow it.

2. But as you are already using SoftMaker Office 2021, the above suggestion is not good because TMD file from which you created this template is actually very old file format with outdated features.

Currently, we have TMDX file format with no compatibility issues. So, I suggest you to create a new file/template from scratch without using that TMD file.

RKanarek
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:59 am

Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by RKanarek » Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:02 am

Dear Super,

I'm so sorry for being so late in replying, but I'm hardly a man of leisure.

Thanks for the information! Your deductions -- which I shall assume are correct -- are a mark not only of your brilliance, but of the brilliance that your dear employer demonstrated when hiring you. No wonder you're called Super.

I confess that I had a moment's doubt about your information when I opened a genuine MS Word file (yuck) and found it's included table shifted just as in the files I create with my favorite .TMV formatted template, but I it would seems that the Word file was simply created by someone sloppy. For the time being, I must assume that you are absolutely correct.

Of course a picky person might point out that, if TM has problems with .TMD/.TMV files to the extent that even its "compatibility" settings don't fully work, then it may be a problem that needs addressing. How fortunate that there are no such people here. ;-)

Kind regards,
Richard Kanarek

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Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by martin-k » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:44 am

This compatibility setting is there because Word 2003 and earlier created exactly this type of tables. Old versions of TextMaker created Word 2003-style tables, and your document is likely from these "old days". That's why this setting was retained.
Martin Kotulla
SoftMaker Software GmbH

RKanarek
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Re: Table Problem 1 of 2: New Tables Overshoot Margins

Post by RKanarek » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:26 am

Dear Dr. Kotulla,

Thanks for the personal response!

I do not wish to beat a dead horse, but just to be clear:
* TM is wonderful.
* I certainly understand why the option might be present.
* My last post(s) were meant to convey my suspicions -- which may be wrong -- that the compatibility settings don't work as they should. As I recall (possibly incorrectly), they aren't saved with a template. Also, as I very dimly recall (ditto), if one bounces between compatibility settings, the settings one changes don't seem to stick as I thought they should.

Again, my suspicions about the compatibility-settings issues could be wrong. And, even if I'm right, you may well have more important things to do. I just thought I'd mention them.

Best regards, and keep up the good work!

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