Aligning objects

mangodurian
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Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:55 pm

How can I automatically align an object to the right margin of a page?

I have a document full of what I believe are called "objects" (they are basically text boxes - when I double click on them I get the "object properties" box pop up - sorry I'm a newbie with this).. I'd like to select an object and make sure it is right aligned properly (not the text within it, but the object itself)..

Even better if I could somehow select ALL objects in the document and right align them all in one or 2 clicks.. is that possible?

thanks for help..

Jossi
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by Jossi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:06 pm

In one go, this is not possible for all objects in the document, but for all objects on a page.
1. Invoke View > Object mode.
2. Place one object with the mouse at the right margin.
2. Select all objects with Ctrl+A or with the mouse.
3. Invoke Object > Align or distribute > Align right.
All objects will be aligned with the one furthest to the right.

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:18 pm

OK.. I just tried this and am confused by the results I'm getting.

Firstly, when I select an object and then press ctrl-a all the objects in the document are selected, - not just the one's on the current page (as I think you are saying).. that's what I was hoping I would happen though.

but when I then go to Object > Align or distribute > Align right

all the objects disappear from the document leaving a space where they used to be.. then after a few minutes, the "filler" spaces disappear, and all the objects are gone/vanished from the doc.. a control z get's them back again..

even weirder is that the "word count" for the doc remains the same after the objects (which contain text) have disappeared...

i'm using TextMaker Professional 2021 (rev S1022.1108) 64bit on windows 10..

thanks.

Jossi
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by Jossi » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:10 am

I'm really sorry, this was completely my fault. I had a one page document in mind.
As you wrote correctly, Ctrl+A selects all objects in the document, with the results you described. To select all objects on a page in Object mode you may either draw a rectangle around them with the mouse or use Shift-Click.

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:40 pm

The the results I'm getting are normal? Somehow I doubt that is true..

all the objects disappear from the document leaving a space where they used to be.. then after a few minutes, the "filler" spaces disappear, and all the objects are gone/vanished from the doc.. a control z get's them back again..

even weirder is that the "word count" for the doc remains the same after the objects (which contain text) have disappeared...

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:10 pm

I've written several books with extensive use of objects with text..

I have been using libreoffice for this, but libreofice has several bugs when it comes to using objects, so i bought softmaker 2021 thinking a paid office suite would fair better..

unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case.. I've run into several problems already trying to work with objects in textmaker.. i've seen the text become separated from the frame it is in, which looks real odd.. not sure how to repeat that problem though..

aligning is much easier in libreoffice, as you just select the object and press the "right alignment button" (you don't have to switch to "object" mode first)..

it seems that when i wish to select a page or 2 of text, the objects are not included in that selection, so when i ctrl-x it, they are left standing, making it difficult to cut pages and paste them elsewhere..

if I ctrl-c an object and place it elsewhere, it no longer has the same properties as its original..

i am so confused with this,, and having to switch always to "object" mode is tiresome too..

Jossi
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by Jossi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:13 pm

In TextMaker, the difference between Edit mode and Object mode is quite essential. Basically, a document containing objects has two layers, a text layer and an object layer. This has some disadvantages (to copy or move a whole page with objects, you have to do the copy & paste twice, once in Edit mode and once in Object mode; it is not possible to copy or move more than one page with objects) but also advantages (objects are clearly separated from text, so they won't get mixed up easily). When changing from a different word processor, this may be a bit unfamiliar at first, but it works quite reliably.

There are also "embedded objects"; they are not real objects at all, but part of the text layer. The program treats them as a sort of giant letter. So they cannot be positioned freely, but keep their place in the line (just like a letter), wander with the text, and influence line height (which can be rather inconvenient). It is always possible to convert one sort of object into the other via the context menu, but in most cases it is better to work with "real" objects (object frames) as only these give you full control of all properties.

It is important to know that, whenever you paste an object, its character is defined by the mode you are in; so if you are in Object mode, every pasted object becomes an object frame; if you are in Edit mode, every pasted object becomes an embedded object. This may be the reason why objects seem to change their properties unexpectedly when pasting them.

Existing objects can only be aligned with each other; it is not possible to align objects to page margins because objects can also be positioned on or outside page margins. In Object properties, however, you can define the horizontal object position as "Right" and "Relative to page margins" with an offset of 0.

I've never seen a text frame lose its text in TextMaker. This could only happen if it isn't a text frame at all, but a rectangle and a text block placed above each other, but independent from each other.

By the way, you don't have to change into Object mode to select and handle objects; you can also do it in Edit mode by clicking exactly on the outline of the object (not inside) so that the eight light blue handles get visible. Sometimes it is a bit difficult to catch exactly the outline with the mouse, so I recommended to change into Object mode first.

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:35 pm

Maybe there is some sense behind the way things work, but I don't see them as being intuitive.. I'm still left scratching my head after your explanation..
I would need to see some video explanations of all this, and some practical examples to understand better how things work..

You still haven't addressed though, that when I switch to object mode and select all objects and attempt to right align them:

all the objects disappear from the document leaving a space where they used to be.. then after a few minutes, the "filler" spaces disappear, and all the objects are gone/vanished from the doc.. a control z get's them back again..

even weirder is that the "word count" for the doc remains the same after the objects (which contain text) have disappeared...

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:41 pm

looking at an objects properties, would it not be useful to see immediately if it is a real object or an embedded object?

if i want to move an entire chapter of my book, having to move text first and then objects is just not user friendly at all..

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:00 pm

i've cr3eated a dummy lorem ipsum doc with some objects/frames can i send it to you to look at?

it has the text out of alignment with the frames.. maybe it is as you've said that they are text block and rectangle..

also if you select the first object in this doc, do a ctrl-a and then choose object>align or distribute> align right then you will see the object disappear as described above.. unless the problem is somehow unique to my setup..

Jossi
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by Jossi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:13 pm

Please attach the document here so we can have a look at it.

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:23 pm

here it is..
Attachments
lorem test.tmdx
(49.13 KiB) Downloaded 26 times

Jossi
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by Jossi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:54 pm

mangodurian wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:41 pm
looking at an objects properties, would it not be useful to see immediately if it is a real object or an embedded object?
In the context menu, "Convert to embedded object" shows it is an object frame, "Convert to object frame" shows it is an embedded object.

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Re: Aligning objects

Post by Jossi » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:11 pm

mangodurian wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:23 pm
here it is..
There are different types of objects in your document. All rectangles with shadows are Auto shapes with inserted text; the two rectangles without a shadow are text boxes.* All of these are object frames except the last one on page 6 (text box 2) which is an embedded object: it takes the place of a letter between "sceleru" and "m" and defines the height of the line it is in. All of them (auto shapes and text boxes) have their own inner text which won't go lost. Maybe you overlaid an auto shape with a text box containing the same text or vice versa; in this case both objects stay independent and can be separated again.

You need text frames to stay attached to the right page margin even if page sizes will change later. The right way to achieve this is to set the Object properties (tab "Layout") of all text frames to: Horizontal position Right, Relative to page margins, Offset 0 cm.
This can be done in one go for all frames in the document: Go to Object mode, then press Ctrl+A and invoke Object > properties. Changes made there will be applied to all objects simultaneously. (If selecting all objects with Ctrl+A comprises some objects you don't want to change, deselect them first before changing properties.) This is done in a few seconds.
There is no need at all to use the "Align" function; this is only for aligning several objects on a page with each other, not for aligning objects to page margins. One should never select object frames from different pages and then apply "Align", as this will lead to unpredictable results; object frames will jump to other pages, overlap and/or cover other frames and so on.** That's what happened when you selected all objects and invoked "Align right". None of those frames were actually lost, they only took the most bizarre positions somewhere in the document and sat on top of each other. This explains also why the word count didn't change - no text was gone.

I attach your sample document with object frames placed at the right margin in the way I have described above. You might want to change the size of the page margins and will see that the frames stay where they are meant to be.
In some cases, moving the frames to the right created more room for the basic text on their left side, so the paragraph to which frame 19 is attached has moved from the top of page 5 to the bottom of page 4 which gives an undesirable result for the placement of frame 19. This will have to be corrected manually.

Sorry I didn't give you the right answer in the first go; as I hadn´t precisely realized what the problem was I was led on a wrong way.


* Basically, both types of objects behave the same way. There are a few small differences, e.g. text boxes can contain text in two or more columns, auto shapes cannot. This is because text boxes were an original feature of TextMaker, whereas auto shapes were introduced later for reasons of compatibility with Microsoft Word, and MS Word doesn't allow text in boxes or shapes to have more than one column.

** This means that my first answer to your first question was complete bullshit because I had only thought of a one page document.
Attachments
lorem test objects named and rearranged.tmdx
(44.73 KiB) Downloaded 25 times

mangodurian
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Re: Aligning objects

Post by mangodurian » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:25 pm

Thanks Jossi, for your patience in explaining all this to me. And my apologies for my inability to better describe the issues I was facing.

I'm starting to get my head around this, although still not quite there yet.

You say in your reply "All of them (auto shapes and text boxes) have their own inner text which won't go lost." are you saying that the text and autoshapes will remain together? because I can see that that is not always the case.. I think this may be a bug which needs reporting:

see attached file page 2

in the attachment you've shared back, the object frames/text frames all seem to have a blank line at the bottom of them (ie the spacing at the bottom is disproportionate to the one at the top), is there a way to decrease that lower space to make it the same as the top one? (I'm always trying to budget space to make docs have less pages when printed)

and, when I cut a frame, and paste it elsewhere in the document it is no longer aligned to the right margin.. as I'm often moving text boxes around by cutting and pasting them is there a way to keep that alignment when doing so?
Attachments
lorem test 2.tmdx
(49.13 KiB) Downloaded 21 times

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