Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

General questions and answers about SoftMaker Office 2016 for Windows. Don't post application-specific questions here, but in the appropriate subforum.
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Simon
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Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Simon » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:59 pm

I wonder why Thunderbird is in SoftMaker Office suite when it is not a reliable product.

Thunderbird is a bad piece of software because:
1. It is full of bugs. It HAS problems with the IMAP folders, account configuration, account folders, internal database, extensions, charset, etc. All of them well known and documented. It even uses more HW resources than Softmaker Office!
2. Its interface is a mess. The important features are hidden, as account settings and view options, but those that nobody wants are in first place. It is so obvious that there is a paid fork named PostBox which tried to fix it (unsuccessfully until now).
3. It is not customer oriented. Its developers do not hear users, they make what they want with the excuse "you can not complain it is free".

Instead SoftMaker is working to be the best, making a solid reputation and a long term business, so, including Thunderbird will damage its efforts and will cost a lot of the support that Mozilla had(will) never made. Remember when Daimler bought Chrysler...

Why not Pegasus Mail? It invented the modern email features we all use now and one of the most popular Windows mail servers. It only needs to support eml files to compete with eM. There is also Opera mail, which designed the GMail interface, it just needs to implement multi-account/mufti-identities. Improving both (Pegasus and Opera Mail), is a much simpler task than fix Thunderbird. There is also theBat with a good webengine.

Thanks to SM Office I tried eM and I did not find ANY of the issues of Thuderbird, I understand it is expensive and SoftMaker could not close the deal with them, however, there are other good alternatives.
Last edited by Simon on Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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XL-Dennis
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by XL-Dennis » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:21 pm

It's regretful that the beta subforums for 2016 no longer is available. SoftMaker made a good write up when this question was raised during the beta stage.

Personally I see Thunderbird as optional. We can keep the present version of the eM Client or use the standalone (free or Commercial) of it.

However, the best option would be if SoftMaker decided to make their own e-mail client.
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Dennis

Jossi
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Jossi » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:04 pm

Dennis, you may still access the Beta forums via the "Jump to" dropdown in the lower right corner of the forum page. (I didn't know this myself until last week when a user in the German forum pointed this out.)

Simon, as far as I learned from the contributions of SoftMaker officials here and in the German forum, it was not the cost which made them replace eMClient, but the fact that it is developed and supported by another company which was not as responsive to bug reports and feature requests as expected. As you already remarked, SoftMaker has a high reputation and standard especially in customer relations and it seems they couldn't get to terms with the emClient developers in this area. Once bitten, twice shy – I suppose they are not willing to repeat this experiment with another external company.
So, by appointing one of their own developers exclusively for Thunderbird improvements, add-ons and bug fixes, they hope to have more control over their mail client. To develop an own mail client from scratch would probably overstretch SoftMaker's manpower.

Simon
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Simon » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:55 am

Jossi wrote:So, by appointing one of their own developers exclusively for Thunderbird improvements, add-ons and bug fixes, they hope to have more control over their mail client. To develop an own mail client from scratch would probably overstretch SoftMaker's manpower.
:lol: The problems are in the core, Mozilla will not allow SoftMaker to change the product.

Here is a an example, the bug is reported since 2008 and remains until now. When you set up the IMAP folders, Thunderbird creates a virtual directory in a random basis and its parent is showed in italics. Will SM fix a bug that Mozilla has been unable to find in a decade?
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic ... 9&t=628287

I do not know if SoftMaker boss is naive, intrepid or arrogant but definitively makes me remember when Daimler bought Chrysler. Lets see if he succeed where the others failed.

After reading your post, the best option for SM would be Opera Mail, both companies share similar quality values and improving Opera Mail would be much easier than deal with Mozilla. BTW, Opera invented the Tabs interface, it may help SM to improve SM Office or at least do not pay loyalties if it is the case. Tell your boss, he may consider it if the Mozilla venture fails.

Jossi
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Jossi » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:03 pm

Just to make this clear: SoftMaker's boss isn't my boss. I have no professional association with SoftMaker whatsoever. SoftMaker volunteers are just experienced users willing to do beta testing and to help others in the forum.

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XL-Dennis
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by XL-Dennis » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:13 pm

Dennis, you may still access the Beta forums via the "Jump to" dropdown in the lower right corner of the forum page. (I didn't know this myself until last week when a user in the German forum pointed this out.)
Thanks! Every day I learn something new :D

Thanks also for the heads up on Opera Mail.
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Dennis

Simon
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Simon » Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:44 pm

Jossi wrote:SoftMaker volunteers are just experienced users willing to do beta testing and to help others in the forum.
In fact Dennis and I may be seen as volunteers too, but you are closer to the decision taker in the company.
You are our voice and it depends of you if our contribution becomes in a waste of time or not.
I am not telling they must agree with me, simply consider an option that they may not do before.

Jossi
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Jossi » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:29 pm

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not even closer to the decision makers in the company. If I were, some feature requests I made years ago would have been realised by now... :wink:

Simon
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Simon » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:34 pm

Jossi wrote:Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not even closer to the decision makers in the company.
Scheiße :o ! I was sure no executive read the forum because I had been en Germany for a while and I know how the things work, but I got disappointed to realize that our feedback is useless (it must be known by those who write in it to avoid they waste their time).
Additionally I can not understand how you are a volunteer for a company that does not have such important consideration with you. You MUST be ifs first source of information because you know the product and you are close the user real needs.
I would feel honored to have a volunteer like you in any of my companies, at lest you would have direct communication with the owner...

Jossi
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by Jossi » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:27 am

Simon, be sure that this forum is read and considered by SoftMaker officials. martin-k, who posts here frequently, is in fact the founder and CEO of SoftMaker (you can't be much closer to the decision makers than that :wink: ). As for feature requests, one must always keep in mind that things which are all-important to me may have no priority at all for other users. The company has not only the feedback from the forum participants and the volunteers, but also from other customers' mails and phone calls and from OEM customers. Given the fact that SoftMaker is a very small company with limited manpower their overall customer responsiveness is great and I trust them to decide wisely which features are needed most by most customers.

nord
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Re: Why did SoftMaker include Thunderbird?

Post by nord » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:18 pm

Jossi wrote:Simon, be sure that this forum is read and considered by SoftMaker officials. martin-k, who posts here frequently, is in fact the founder and CEO of SoftMaker (you can't be much closer to the decision makers than that :wink: ). As for feature requests, one must always keep in mind that things which are all-important to me may have no priority at all for other users. The company has not only the feedback from the forum participants and the volunteers, but also from other customers' mails and phone calls and from OEM customers. Given the fact that SoftMaker is a very small company with limited manpower their overall customer responsiveness is great and I trust them to decide wisely which features are needed most by most customers.
Jossi,

PMFJI on this thread... have to say that I have been using SoftMaker since 2008 and Thunderbird/ SeaMonkey/ Mozilla Suite since the late 90s (before that Netscape Communicator). Having dedicated programmers from a forprofit company working on TB/SM is an exciting plus for me, as they seem (already) to be focusing in on some longstanding bugs. (FWIW, I use both TB and SM and with the extension converter that was developed independently over at MozillaZine, I have managed to incorporate both FireFox and Thunderbird extensions into SM. I find that by using both TB and SM, I get a clearer picture of what works and what doesn't there. I am looking forward to seeing what else SoftMaker can bring to Mozilla.

Tks.
-- N --

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