Can't delete paragraph styles....

vtpoet
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Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

Whenever I try to delete a paragraph style, I can't. I delete it and it seems to pop right back into existence. Or the option to delete the paragraph style is greyed out.

And I also can't figure out how to open a document with no styles (with the intent of creating a new document template).
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Michael Uplawski
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by Michael Uplawski »

Howdy.

This is an easy one. :D

You just have to understand the concept of a document template. Not its uses, as you appear to be quite familiar with that, AFAIS. What I mean is this:
A document template is just the aggregation of paragraph- and character-styles plus a few other settings which do not interest in this discussion. So.., when you *delete* a style, you delete it where? Nope.

You delete it from the document, that you are currently working on, even an empty document. You do *NOT* delete it from the template that you hope to manipulate. To succeed, you must
  1. delete a style
  2. delete more styles, if you wish
  3. store the current document *as a template*, either overwriting one of the existing templates or in a new template-file!
I guess, that the last point conveys the solution to all your problems.
vtpoet wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 7:26 pmAnd I also can't figure out how to open a document with no styles (with the intent of creating a new document template).
What you hope to open, is a template without styles. As long as you do not create such a template, there is none, AFAIS. SoftMaker would have to deliver one with their package, if a majority of people asked for it, which I doubt. But in view of the simplicity, there should be no need for it. Create as many templates as you wish with the procedure outlined, above.

... and beat me up, if I misunderstood you completely...
Hindsight is in the eye of the beholder.
vtpoet
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

Thanks Michael,

Noticed you over on the German forum too. :)

So... I'm still not able to delete any styles following your instructions (which I think is what I'd been doing all along). I even tried to open the default template *as* a template in order to delete (declutter) unused styles. Can't do it. I choose delete. The list bounces back to the top. When I scroll down, there they all are. And now I can't delete them (the delete option is greyed out) but they're still there. Attached are all the styles I'm dealing with. I don't need all those "Header" or "Index" styles for example. It's a mess.
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The delete option is greyed out but the style is still there.
The delete option is greyed out but the style is still there.
delete greyed out.png (22.66 KiB) Viewed 13232 times
Styles.png
Jossi
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by Jossi »

At the bottom of the sidebar, you can choose to show "Styles in use" or "All styles". Possibly the option "All styles" is active. In this case, you see the complete stock of styles which are available in TextMaker. Change to "Styles in use" and you will see which styles are actually present in your current document (and these can also be deleted).
vtpoet
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

Thanks Jossi, good thought but unfortunately doesn't make a difference. Opening a blank document, one would expect to see that no styles are in use, but that isn't the case.

I'm beginning to think this is a bug. There ought to be a way to delete styles.
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by sven-l »

It's the same behaviour as in MS Word. "All styles" shows all styles you can (theoretically) create but that doesn't mean that these styles are already in the document, hence they cannot be deleted from the document. In "Styles in use" all listed styles are in the document and can be deleted.
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Michael Uplawski
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by Michael Uplawski »

vtpoet wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 4:51 am Thanks Jossi, good thought but unfortunately doesn't make a difference. Opening a blank document, one would expect to see that no styles are in use, but that isn't the case.
Wrong.

Opening a blank document opens a document using the styles either of the template that you chose explicitly or the standard-template, which is still a template comprising styles.

I say again: “If you need a template without styles, serving to create new documents without styles, YOU have to create that template, first.

After re-examination of the contributions to this thread, I believe that Jossi nailed it.
Hindsight is in the eye of the beholder.
vtpoet
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

//Change to "Styles in use" and you will see which styles are actually present in your current document//

None of the styles below are "in use" and yet there they are.
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Screenshot from 2018-05-29 06-39-51.png
vtpoet
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

//I say again: “If you need a template without styles, serving to create new documents without styles, YOU have to create that template, first.”//

IF you want to be helpful, create a template with no styles listed in the style window. Then get back to me.
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by martin-k »

vtpoet wrote: Tue May 29, 2018 12:44 pm //Change to "Styles in use" and you will see which styles are actually present in your current document//

None of the styles below are "in use" and yet there they are.
The term "Styles in use" means "styles that are physically present in the document, regardless of if they are applied to some text or not". Yes, the term is not perfect, but we didn't find any that was short enough and more precise.
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vtpoet
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

Fair enough. Maybe "Available Styles" would work?

Anyway, is it possible to create a template with only a set number of styles ---- available and visible.
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by martin-k »

1. We thought about "Available styles" but the styles that are displayed in "All styles" are available as well.

2. If you start your document based on the regular Normal.tmvx, you'll have the paragraph styles Normal, Heading 1, Heading 2 and Heading 3 already defined. These are shown when "Styles in use" is selected. If you choose "All styles", you get all the Microsoft Word compatible styles. They are not physically there in the document, they are only created the first time you double-click on the respective style.

3. You cannot delete a style that doesn't really exist, that's why Delete is grayed for styles that are only visible with "All styles" on. When you apply such a style in a document, it is created and can be deleted again. If you have "Styles in use" on, the style disappears from the list. If you have "All styles" on, the style is removed from the document but appears (again) as a not-yet-created style in the list. So it seems as if nothing has happened. It's a bit confusing, but there is no better solution.

4. You can delete all styles from a document or template - except for one: the Normal style must exist because each paragraph has one style associated with it. There are no style-less paragraphs.
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vtpoet
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

sven-l wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 11:05 am It's the same behaviour as in MS Word.
Are you sure? My memory with WORD and currently with Libre Office is that both -- in fact -- only show the styles actually being used. Attached is LO:
Blank Document/No Styles Listed
Blank Document/No Styles Listed
I can fire up my windows machine and confirm the same with WORD I think.

// It's a bit confusing, but there is no better solution.//

But wouldn't a better solution, as with LO, be to simply, in fact, not show a style that's not applied?

How can I, or why can't I, create a Document Template with only the Normal Style and no other? Should I physically delete/move ALL templates from the template folder? Where is Textmaker pulling up all these other styles that I'll never use?
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by martin-k »

1. If you keep the setting "Styles in use" (which is default), then you have exactly the behavior that you want. Yes, Word works the same way.

2. To have a document with just the "Normal" style, open the Normal.tmvx template and delete the styles Heading1...3. Save the template, maybe under a different name. Note that some actions (such as inserting a footnote or creating a table of contents) create the styles they need on-the-fly.
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vtpoet
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Re: Can't delete paragraph styles....

Post by vtpoet »

martin-k wrote: Tue May 29, 2018 1:33 pm 1. If you keep the setting "Styles in use" (which is default), then you have exactly the behavior that you want. Yes, Word works the same way.

2. To have a document with just the "Normal" style, open the Normal.tmvx template and delete the styles Heading1...3. Save the template, maybe under a different name. Note that some actions (such as inserting a footnote or creating a table of contents) create the styles they need on-the-fly.
1. Just for facts sake, and not to be argumentative, but Word does not work this way. It works like LO.
Only Styles in Use are Actually Listed
Only Styles in Use are Actually Listed
2. Okay. I'll try editing Normal.tmvx. However, as has emerged in this thread: The real issue is that Softmaker should behave like Word and LO and only list those style --- "in use" --- that are actually being used in the document. This would solve the whole problem I'm having.
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